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10/5/06
Rev. Rob Schenck joined CNN
Host Larry King on his program Larry King Live! Wednesday evening to discuss the
prayer meetings he's had with the victims of the Nickel Mines school shooting
tragedy. Rev. Schenck has met and prayed with the family of shooter Charles Roberts
as well as several of the families who lost children in Monday's horrific events.
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Funerals for Five Slain Girls Tomorrow; A Look Ahead to Midterm Elections
Aired October 4, 2006 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE
UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, as a quiet, close- knit Amish community
prepares to bury five of its daughters murdered in a shocking rampage at their
one-room schoolhouse, heartbreaking insights with a friend of the killer's widow,
who prayed with her on Monday; a midwife who helped deliver several of the victims
and more.
And then, new shocking claims in the Foley scandal, will it bring down the
speaker and the whole Republican House? What about those bombshells Bob Woodward
has been dropping on the Bush administration? Who better to ask than the best
political team on television?
CNN's Washington insiders with all the latest on these explosive stories still
developing as we speak, it's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We begin with the tragedy in Pennsylvania. We'll be meeting various folks
in Harrisburg and Georgetown, Pennsylvania. We're anchored here in Washington
by Reverend Bob Schenck, president of the National Clergy Council, president of
the D.C.-based Faith in Action Ministries, met with relatives of the Amish school
killer and his wife. He was with us last night. Has it sunk in yet?
REVEREND ROB SCHENCK: For me?
KING: Yes.
SCHENCK: No, Larry, coming back from Lancaster I was dealing with the aftermath
of it and I would say for me it ranks on the same emotional scale as 9/11 did,
as going to the New Orleans area after Katrina. It has the same kind of impact
on you.
KING: You're still counseling then?
SCHENCK: Yes. I'll be back there again in the next couple of days.
KING: In Georgetown, Pennsylvania is Barb Beiler. Barb is a member of the mother's
prayer group, Moms in Touch International. She prayed with Marie Roberts, the
wife of the Amish school killer on Monday. Barb, what was that like? BARB BEILER,
MOMS IN TOUCH INTERNATIONAL: Our prayer meeting was as it normally is. We meet
together. We lift up the children in prayer to our eternal God. Marie was there.
We had a wonderful prayer time together.
KING: How did Marie handle it?
BEILER: Marie was Marie. She's a very gracious person. She leads the group
very well. She honors Jesus Christ and Marie was Marie on Monday, the same as
she has always been.
KING: Michele Beyer is a friend of Marie Roberts and also a member of that
prayer group. She prayed with Marie on Monday. Michele, has the community, any
in the community blamed her?
MICHELE BEYER, MOMS IN TOUCH INTERNATIONAL: To my knowledge no, no not at all.
KING: Has she remained steadfast?
BEYER: Absolutely.
KING: How do you explain that?
BEYER: Her faith in God, her faith in Jesus Christ. He's what's going to carry
her through this. He is her hope and her rock and her fortress and he will carry
her through this and she believes that with all her heart as we all do.
KING: Did you -- did either of you have any doubts after this tragedy in your
belief?
BEILER: No.
BEYER: No.
BEILER: We question. We search. We talk. We have emotions of anger, pain, hurt
but our faith remains strong in God, in our savior Jesus.
BEYER: God is still God.
KING: Rita Rhoads is a midwife in the Amish community. She helped deliver several
of the girls who were killed in Monday's school shooting. What has this been like
for you, Rita?
RITA RHOADS, MIDWIFE: Well, first of all, you know, having delivered some of
the children who were involved, I mean first of all it was a shock and really
hoping that none of the children that I personally knew would be involved. And
then the sadness and additional shock to find out that four of the children I
knew were involved and that two of them that I had delivered had, in fact, died.
KING: You're not going to get over this.
RHOADS: It will take a while. It's like any loss. When you lose somebody you
love, somebody you care about, it takes a while to get over it. I think the biggest
thing that helps me to get over it is I've been with the families and grieved
with them and being able to share that grief personally with them has certainly
been helpful to me.
KING: How do you explain, reverend, the Amish's forgiveness of the killer?
SCHENCK: Well, Larry, the Amish community is a very interesting study. Of course,
the Amish were born in the 16th Century out of persecution. They were persecuted
in Europe. And very early on they took the Sermon on the Mount as their core really
doctrinal statement.
They don't really have a formal set of doctrines but the Sermon on the Mount
is really their code, their Christian code. And, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus
admonished us in that sermon.
He said that we needed to forgive others as God forgives us that we have to
be careful to forgive others their sins against us or God will not forgive us
of our sins. It's a circle. You have to keep giving in order to get forgiveness
and that's a the heart of the gospel.
KING: What do you find extraordinary about the Amish, other than this forgiveness
aspect which is (INAUDIBLE).
SCHENCK: Well, of course, there's their lifestyle. I mean they do eschew anything
that's modern technology. They live separate from the world. That's one of their
core tenets is to live differently than other people. But that's really only the
obvious.
When you look at the core of the Amish, while not every Amish person is religious,
and I think that's a misunderstanding, some think because of the way they live
they're all religious, not entirely true. But at the heart of the Amish culture
is the gospel. It is a Christian culture and they live out the principles of the
New Testament.
KING: Barb, Michele, and Rita, thank you. Reverend Schenck will remain with
us.
And when we come back, we'll be joined by Colonel Jeffrey Miller, by Donald
Kraybill. Colonel Miller is the police, Pennsylvania State Police commissioner;
more on the tragedy in Pennsylvania when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ENOS MILLER, GRANDFATHER OF TWO VICTIMS: I didn't sleep last night as others
done. This is my son and this is my son and daughter- in-law down (INAUDIBLE)
hospital and they saw her die down there. Then the other (INAUDIBLE) and we went
up at two o'clock in the morning. We saw her die up there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you guys were with both of the girls as they passed
away? (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Reverend Rob Schenck remains with us.
Joining us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania is Colonel Jeffrey Miller, Pennsylvania
State Police Commissioner. Colonel, what's the latest on the two young relatives
Charles Roberts said that he molested 20 years ago?
COL. JEFFREY MILLER, COMMISSIONER, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: Well, Larry,
we've been able to locate those two relatives and conduct interviews with them.
And what we've learned is that neither one of them, they were ages four and five
at the time that this allegedly occurred, neither one of them has any recollection
of any molestation by Charles Roberts.
Now, we don't know if they were too young to recall or if this never happened
or perhaps it was something less than perhaps would have been like a sexual assault
type of situation and perhaps it stayed with him but they don't have any recollection
of it.
KING: Reverend Schenck, we were talking during the break, when you have a suicide
it's such a -- not only a guilt trip, it leaves you with no knowledge, right?
All we have is speculation.
SCHENCK: Yes, in a way the individual who does that really continues the suffering
by leaving behind all those unanswered questions and that's what makes suicide
really a double tragedy. It's not just a death.
KING: In Georgetown is Donald Kraybill, author of numerous books on Amish life
and culture, including "The Riddle of Amish Culture" and "The Amish
and the State." He's a senior fellow and distinguished professor at Elizabethtown
College. What in a nutshell is the riddle of Amish culture, Donald?
DONALD KRAYBILL, AUTHOR, "THE RIDDLE OF AMISH CULTURE": Well, the
riddle of Amish culture is how in the world does a traditional group that rejects
a lot of technology and doesn't go to high school and doesn't use electricity
or television, how in the world are they growing so rapidly? They're doubling
every 20 years. That's the riddle.
KING: Do you have an answer?
KRAYBILL: I do. They have specific practices that help them have a sharp identity
as a community, their way of dressing, their schools and so on. But in addition
to that they also negotiate with the outside world. They make a lot of compromises
in their use of technology and do a lot of creative things that enable them not
only to maintain their identity but also to grow and to change and to adapt to
the outside world.
KING: Colonel Miller, have they at all been helpful, can they be helpful in
the investigation?
MILLER: The Amish community, Larry?
KING: Yes.
MILLER: Well they have been very helpful in the sense that they've -- they've
worked closely with us. We've been trying to be very respectful of their customs
and all of the things that are affecting the community right now and we're going
to be assisting them with the funerals tomorrow and Friday.
But, they've been as helpful as they can be. They've been very cooperative.
Everybody has consented to interviews and has provided as much information as
they have.
KING: Rob, you've met with relatives of the killer right?
SCHENCK: Yes, I did.
KING: How do they deal with it?
SCHENCK: Well, I thought the most stunning thing about it, Larry, was the fact
that this family so torn apart, the Roberts, I spoke mostly with his parents and
the brother-in-law, but the other family members were present in the household.
The children were there.
And what impressed me more than anything this is a Christian family. They are
very loving people. They care about one another. The family is close. But what
impressed me was the fact that they were actually receiving the forgiveness from
the Amish community, which was offered generously from the very beginning and
that's impressive.
KING: Will they go -- will they go to the funerals?
SCHENCK: I don't know that they'll go to the funerals. They've been invited
to go. They certainly feel very warm towards the Amish community. And what's important
here is that, you know, you can stop the cycle of forgiveness by rejecting it
and often people who feel guilty or ashamed do that.
But in this case, they have received it and that's really what the heart of
the gospel is all about receiving forgiveness from God and sharing that with others.
We have to accept it first and they are doing that and it's keeping the cycle
of forgiveness going.
KING: Donald, this is a real test of that concept isn't it?
KRAYBILL: It certainly is. It really is an example of where the Amish really
put their faith into action. They take Jesus as the model. When he is hanging
on the cross he says, Father, forgive the people that have tortured me. When he
talks to the disciples about how often do you forgive someone, he said "70
times 7." And so the Amish really believe in this concept of forgiveness.
I frequently hear them saying "It's important that we forgive and we forget."
KING: Yes.
KRAYBILL: And so that's what they are trying to do in this situation.
KING: Colonel, we're never going to find out the real answer are we?
MILLER: No, Larry, we're not. I mean we have some speculation. You know I read
something today that a forensic psychologist wrote that kind of rang true with
me. He said that, you know, we'll never know and we know that.
But it's almost as if this suspect was so fixated on what had happened in his
life 20 years earlier, what he perceived the impact of that was, living with that
guilt, living with that shame that when his first child was -- was -- died after
living only 20 minutes, it's almost as if he blamed God for punishing him.
And he had hatred towards God and he had hatred towards himself. And it was
almost as if he went into this school and he targeted these young female students
in an effort to strike back revenge for that.
KING: And Reverend Rob, the mothers prepare the bodies, the mothers do the
preparation?
SCHENCK: Yes, they do. I had a rare privilege of being a non- Amish present
to see that, to see the family preparing the body of their child. I don't think
I'll ever forget the tender moments. But the grandfather stood there over the
body of his own granddaughter with her wounds quite visible and spoke about the
importance of forgiving and not thinking evil of the man who did this and I'll
never forget that.
KING: I wouldn't imagine you would. Reverend Schenck, Colonel Miller, Donald
Kraybill, thank you.
By the way, we have an address. If you want to help the victims' families,
you can support it at The Nickel Mines School Victims Fund, there you see
it, The Nickel Mines School Victims Fund, c/o HomeTowne Heritage Bank, P.O.
Box 337, Strasburg, PA 17579.
When we come back, the best political panel on television, Washington's scandal,
can Hastert survive? Woodward's book, Bush, Iraq, the upcoming elections, we'll
try to get it all in, the hot topics next.
To read the transcript in its original form, please visit: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/04/lkl.01.html
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